בגט אם במקום האות ז בשם האיש כתב הסופר אות סמ"ך - כשר, כיון שאותיות אלו מתחלפות זו בזו, ולא מפני זה בלבד שהם ממוצא אחד - זסשר"ץ - אלא מפני שהן קרובות במבטא, ויש שלשונם גסה, ויש שלשונם רפה, וכל הקורא מרגיש שהוא שפה אחת ודברים אחדים, אבל בשאר חילופים של האות ז באותיות שמאותו המוצא, כגון שהחליף ז בצד"י שאף הן מתחלפות, כמו זעקה וצעקה - הגט פסול, כיון שבמבטא הן רחוקות זו מזו (טיב גיטין שמות נשים ז סק"א).
Hi Shaul, I really liked some of your comments in the blogosphere. Your own posts are great for people who share your interests. I hope they find your site. I found it recently.
I share your interest in this post, but like you, find it pedantic.
To move on to what I want to say here, take note of the following pairs of sounds:
=====
B and P
G (as in Google) and K
D and T
V and F
Z and S
Zh and Sh
J and Ch (as in Cheese, not as in Chanuka)
Th (as in The, This, Them) and Th (as in Think, Thick and Thin)
בּ-פּ
ג-ק
ד-ט
ו-פ
ז-ס
=====
The two members of each pair are sort of the same sound only that the first is softer and the second is harder. Try it.
It seems to me that it is difficult to effortlessly slide from a soft letter/sound to a hard letter/sound or the reverse from hard to soft.
In Tizkeru the soft Z is right there together with the hard K. It's a bit unnatural to get them both right. Hence a tendency to say TiSKeru.
In Bais-Din the hard S is right there together with the soft D. It's a bit unnatural to get them both right. Hence a tendency to say BaiZ-Din (or may we should say BeZ-Din thanks to the additional difficulty of getting the AI right).
Same for Ki L'olam Chasdo/Chazdo and Ki Nisgav/Nizgav Shemo Levado.
Possibly in England where they say Butter Better than in the US, this is less of a challenge.
Which brings us to another idea, just plain softening of a sound. That's what happened by Butter, Better, Lives, Shelves, Wolves, Sigzdee, Sevendee, and other words in your post.
I may be wrong, but Yesod Veshoresh Haavoda in his list of common mispronouncements during Shma, has cases similar to these. Perhaps one is BeshiFTecha. Fellow geeks take note. ;)
A lot of (especially older in my experience) people say כי לעולם חסדו, with a z: 'chazzdo'. Depending on how fussy you are, they might not be yotzei.
My sense from reading the mechaber's examples https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%97_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%A1%D7%90 is that the concern is really over mistakes which make the word sound like something blasphemous.
From googling around, I came across this halacha. https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94_%D7%AA%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99%D7%AA:%D7%96#%D7%94%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%AA%D7%94
בגט אם במקום האות ז בשם האיש כתב הסופר אות סמ"ך - כשר, כיון שאותיות אלו מתחלפות זו בזו, ולא מפני זה בלבד שהם ממוצא אחד - זסשר"ץ - אלא מפני שהן קרובות במבטא, ויש שלשונם גסה, ויש שלשונם רפה, וכל הקורא מרגיש שהוא שפה אחת ודברים אחדים, אבל בשאר חילופים של האות ז באותיות שמאותו המוצא, כגון שהחליף ז בצד"י שאף הן מתחלפות, כמו זעקה וצעקה - הגט פסול, כיון שבמבטא הן רחוקות זו מזו (טיב גיטין שמות נשים ז סק"א).
I say bais din but I've heard what you're talking about
Hi Shaul, I really liked some of your comments in the blogosphere. Your own posts are great for people who share your interests. I hope they find your site. I found it recently.
I share your interest in this post, but like you, find it pedantic.
To move on to what I want to say here, take note of the following pairs of sounds:
=====
B and P
G (as in Google) and K
D and T
V and F
Z and S
Zh and Sh
J and Ch (as in Cheese, not as in Chanuka)
Th (as in The, This, Them) and Th (as in Think, Thick and Thin)
בּ-פּ
ג-ק
ד-ט
ו-פ
ז-ס
=====
The two members of each pair are sort of the same sound only that the first is softer and the second is harder. Try it.
It seems to me that it is difficult to effortlessly slide from a soft letter/sound to a hard letter/sound or the reverse from hard to soft.
In Tizkeru the soft Z is right there together with the hard K. It's a bit unnatural to get them both right. Hence a tendency to say TiSKeru.
In Bais-Din the hard S is right there together with the soft D. It's a bit unnatural to get them both right. Hence a tendency to say BaiZ-Din (or may we should say BeZ-Din thanks to the additional difficulty of getting the AI right).
Same for Ki L'olam Chasdo/Chazdo and Ki Nisgav/Nizgav Shemo Levado.
Possibly in England where they say Butter Better than in the US, this is less of a challenge.
Which brings us to another idea, just plain softening of a sound. That's what happened by Butter, Better, Lives, Shelves, Wolves, Sigzdee, Sevendee, and other words in your post.
I may be wrong, but Yesod Veshoresh Haavoda in his list of common mispronouncements during Shma, has cases similar to these. Perhaps one is BeshiFTecha. Fellow geeks take note. ;)